This discussion shed light on the drawings and boxes by John Armelder, works that are usually more associated to his early years when the artist was either a teenager or a founder of the Ecart group. Through a wide range of visuals and unusual credit-lines, the discussion stresses the importance of the paradoxe lying behind the Ecart archives as well as the influence John Cage, and more broadly, Zen Masters on John Armelder’s drawings. The tradition of boxes, from Marcel Duchamp to Fluxus, are keys to understand the notion of « chance » in the making of « quelques objets volants » (1967-1975)